Joining the Growth Lab as a Research Assistant: A Behind the Scenes Look

Alicia Galinsky Thanks again for joining us. My name is Alicia Galinsky. I am Program Coordinator here at the Growth Lab. I work together with the Growth Lab's Program Manager Andrea Hayes. And together we head up the recruitment efforts here. So I'm really excited to have you all here today and kind of share a behind the scenes look at what it's like to be a research assistant or RA as we call it. So I'll start with just a brief introduction of who we are and what we're all about. So as you may know, the Growth Lab is an academic research program under the guidance of Professor Ricardo Hausmann were housed at Harvard Center for International Development at the Harvard Kennedy School. And we're made up of a really incredible, diverse team of researchers that studies economic growth and structural change in an effort to understand the challenges to economic development. With this mission in mind, the Growth Lab engages actively in applying its research to policy engagements, which we'll hear more about shortly. But as I mentioned, we'll soon be hiring for the position of research assistant to continue to expand our great team. So in this session, you'll be able to learn a little bit more about what it's like to work at the Growth Lab in this role. And we have three incredible members of our team here today who will introduce themselves shortly. They'll explain a little bit about their background and what they work on. And then we'll jump into our question and answer portion of the event. And at this point, we'd love to hear from you. So Katya Gonzalez-Willette, our Events and Outreach Specialist will moderate this portion. So feel free to either raise your hand or type a question to her in the chat. And I think with that said, we can get started and I will pass it to Ana to start with the introductions.

Ana Grisanti Hi, everyone. Very nice to be here today. So my name is Ana Grisanti. I am a Research Assistant obviously here at the Growth Lab. I've been here for three and a half years, so quite some time and I studied at Boston College. I did a major in economics and sociology. I graduated back in 2017 and started working at the Growth Lab right away. So some of the projects I have worked in are the Mexico Project, a project in Peru, a project in Western Australia, a project in Jordan, actually two projects in Jordan. So as you can see, there is projects that we have from all over the world. And some of the things that I have worked on are foreign direct investment, infrastructure, corruption, crime. I've just had a chance, honestly, to work at a lot of different things here at the Growth Lab, and that's, I think one of the best things about the Research Assistant position is that when you start out, you can have some say into what you're most interested in, but you will also just get a lot of different experiences and a lot of different work areas that you will be able to test out. And I have also had the chance to do some traveling. So I have traveled to Jordan and Peru and Mexico. And that's another thing that's really unique about this experience that I've had, because I think at most places a Research Assistant does not get to do that. So, yeah, ask me anything that you might want to know about this position, and I'll be happy to try to answer your questions as best I can.

Alicia Galinsky Thanks Ana. Now we'll pass it along to Jessie.

Jessie Lu Hi, my name is Jessie, I'm also a Research Assistant here at the Growth Lab. I've been here for about a year and four months I think. I started in August of 2019. I graduated from UPenn, also in 2017. I studied medical anthropology and global health. And before coming to the Growth Lab, I worked at a think tank in D.C. called the Center for Global Development where I did global health policy research. I've kind of transitioned into more broader econ research. I did some contracts with the UN and with the African Development Bank before joining the Growth Lab. And since I've been here, I've had the great opportunity to work on a wide range of projects in countries like Albania, Peru, Namibia, South Africa and Colombia. While at the Growth Lab I've also been privileged enough to work on a variety of different topics. I haven't been able to travel because of COVID, but I've still been able to talk to a lot of government counterparts and kind of get a sense of what's going on in these countries that we work in. In terms of topics in Albania, I've worked a lot on energy markets. I worked on a project on aviation and airports, which was really fascinating. And I've done a lot of work in labor markets and just kind of general economic growth. So I will echo Ana in saying, if you have any questions, happy to answer them. And thanks again for being here.

Rushabh Sanghvi Thank you, everyone. Thank you everyone for being here. I am also an R.A. at the Growth Lab. I graduated from Tufts in 2018. I studied quantitative economics. I worked in consulting for a bit of that and then I've been at the Growth Lab for a year and a half. Jesse and I started out in August 2019. So while I've been at the Lab, I've worked with Western Australia with Ana. I have worked in Namibia with Jesse, and I've also worked in Ethiopia. So I did get to do some traveling. I was in Australia right before COVID struck. So I'm really glad that kicked in, Western Australia. Not COVID obviously. But in general, I feel like the Growth Lab has been a great place for everyone to do - to get a say in what they want to do even as an R.A., I was particularly interested in developing visualization tools and I did get a chance to work with the National Bank of Ethiopia to help them build a tool to monitor inflation. I was interested in understanding more of sectoral specific constraints to development, and I was able to work with a few of the fellows in understanding how logistics works and understand how COVID - how different countries can sort of get the logistics response for for the vaccines. In general, I think the Growth Lab does give you a lot of space in deciding what you want to do and also gives you a lot of say in meetings. I feel coming from a consulting background, I initially would always be quite in the room if there were some people more senior to me. But I feel like the Growth Lab there is a lot more of a flat structure where I don't feel afraid to speak up in meetings or even directly converse with counterparts. I think that's a huge, huge learning opportunity and it's also a great personal growth opportunity for me. So feel free to reach out with any questions you might have. Maybe if someone is trying to decide between private sector and and economic development or research, I might be able to help you with some answers.

Katya Gonzalez-Willette Hi, everyone, my name is Katya, as Alicia mentioned, I'm really excited to moderate this Q&A with our R.A.'s. So Rushabh's introduction actually transitions really nicely into a question that we had from the audience about our typical team structure at the Growth Lab. So they're curious about what a typical project team might look like and how the R.A.'s interact with some of the Research Fellows. What is that working relationship like? So I'll turn the question to Jessie first and then we'll go to Rushabh and then Ana.

Jessie Lu Great. So I think that there is some variation in team structures, as Rushabh and Ana mentioned, we've overlapped in a few projects, but we've also all worked on projects in which we're the only R.A. And I think that just depending on how that works and of course, each team has a little bit of a different structure, just depending on the needs of the project, the research manager who's running it and the research fellows that are assigned there, but generally in my experience. So I worked with Ana in Peru and I worked directly with her. I work with Rishabh in Namibia, and we were kind of in parallel. But in general, I've worked directly with kind of specific research fellows and teams, which has been really helpful to be able to support very tangible tasks that have tangible deliverables. Each Fellow has a different style, but often I work really closely with them. I check in with the fellows pretty regularly. We check in to make sure we're meeting goals, and I always check in to get guidance on methodology and to make sure that I'm meeting the needs of what we have to do. But that's also to say I've also had the opportunity to work with research managers directly as well. So I think most of the interactions happen with research fellows, but also there's opportunity to work with research managers. And I've also been able to work directly with Ricardo in some projects as well.

Rushabh Sanghvi Yes, I think I think Jesse pretty much covered most of it, but I'll just add in terms of the general structure, that it typically is a team manager and each project like one or two team managers with two or four fellows and then one or two RA's. That's a typical structure that I have seen on the teams that I have been in. Of course, like the Growth Lab does a huge variety of projects. So there might be projects which might break away from this norm. But in general there aren't exactly prefixed roles for each person, I have seen the managers writing reports and I've seen R.A.'s also being able to like look at the questions that they themselves are interested in. So it's really pretty much flat in terms of what you would like to get out of it. And the same time, there is enough experience in a single team that you can that you can rely on and fall back on for different advice.

Ana Grisanti Yeah, I think that's a lot of how the teams work. I would also add that the way each team works kind of depends on the working style of the project manager. But I think the general rule is that R.A.'s work mostly directly with fellows and have some research questions with the project managers as well. But you may work with one or two people or more closely within the team. And then the team convenes in larger team meetings like once a week or once every two weeks. And then sometimes - well now that we have COVID and Ricardo is not traveling that much, we get to meet with him almost every week. In normal times, it was less than that. But we also meet with Ricardo and report on what we have been doing. And he gives us insights. And then we take that to the counterparts and that's kind of how the workflow happens. So it's been great in that I have been able to work with a lot of different people and also directly with Ricardo.

Katya Gonzalez-Willette Thank you. We have another question that is similar, but different, and I think I will throw this one right back to Ana because she has been here the longest and I think has had the most interaction with fellows and research managers. But we have a question from the audience about what are the greatest distinctions in the role and then day to day responsibilities between a research fellow and an R.A.?

Ana Grisanti Yeah, that's honestly a difficult question because I think sometimes the roles between R.A.'s and fellows can can kind of mix that's again, something I think unique about the Research Assistant position at the Growth Lab is that you get to do some of the work that typically a fellow would do. But that's a great learning opportunity for us. But I think especially at the beginning, the R.A.'s do most of the data cleaning and most of the research on finding datasets and making sure they're all in order. And they're in a usable format for the team and a lot of the data visualizations. And you work with the fellows who mostly have an idea of the research questions that the project manager have. And they are trying to think of a strategy to answer those research questions and they're asking for support from R.A.'s. So that's the typical or the classic relationship between R.A.'s and research fellows. But again, I have also had opportunities to have my own questions that the team wants to answer and provide more input than just data cleaning and data visualization. I've had opportunity to do regression analysis and I've recently been involved in a survey design. And in those projects, I've been able to do most of the critical thinking myself. So it kind of a depends on the situation.

Katya Gonzalez-Willette Thanks so much Ana. Appreciate that. So my next question is more so related to your skills and your skill set. So now that you've been at the Growth Lab, all of you for at least a year, can you speak to some of the skills that working at the Growth Lab has helped you to hone or grow during your experience here? And I will start with Jesse.

Jessie Lu OK, great. Yeah, so I think that I come from kind of a unique position compared to Rushabh and Ana in the sense that I did not have a very strong economics or quantitative background when I joined. And I think that, you know, I'm very grateful that the Growth Lab kind of took a chance on me and they really provided me with all of the necessary resources. And my coworkers are very patient with me and teaching me. And I was also very eager to learn. But because I had a lot of catching up to do, I was able to gain a lot of skills in terms of coding. So when I came to the Growth Lab, I didn't know how to code at all. Now very proficient in Stata and I also know how to use Python, which I think is something that is a little unique at the Growth Lab. A lot of us just use Stata, but I was able to have the opportunity to learn the tools of Python as well. Also, I think all of us RA's we use a lot of Tableau, which has been really cool. I think that's a skill that's easily transferable to a lot of other jobs. And it's such a powerful tool. It makes making data visualizations very pretty. It makes it really easy to make them and really fast. And that's been great. I also have learned a bunch of sort of besides those technical skills, a lot of kind of know-how on how to do different types of analysis. So as I mentioned, I've done a lot of work on labor markets, which is something that I really never had any experience in before. But I've now run a bunch of Mincer regressions. I've done really interesting kind of unemployment prediction exercises. I did this in South Africa, which was really interesting. And I think just the R.A. position was really interesting because I don't think I've ever done the same kind of analysis twice. You're always going to be doing different things based on the countries that you're working in, the questions you're trying to answer, the datasets that you have available. So it's really like every task that I've done, I've had to learn new skills for. And I think that that's been really, really great. And so I think that the Research Assistant position for me has been a position with a lot of opportunity and a lot of growth. And the Growth Lab has really supported me to get those skills.

Katya Gonzalez-Willette Thanks, Jessie. So my next question actually came in from the audience just before the event and will actually be directed at Alicia, it's more of an admin type question, but somebody was wondering if people from other universities besides Harvard can be R.A.'s at the Growth Lab and if we are looking for just people who are coming from Harvard and how we look at that during the selection process.

Alicia Galinsky Yeah, that's a great question and kind of an easy answer. We welcome anyone to apply. I think our participants here today show that we look at both internal and external applicants when we are choosing our future research assistants.

Katya Gonzalez-Willette Awesome, thank you so much. So on this vein of application process, resumes, all that good stuff. I believe some, if not all of you have been part of the process of recruitment before in some capacity. And so I'm wondering if you can give some advice on what you think our prospective applicants, like what sticks out on an application or a resume? Are there any qualities that make a good Growth Lab R.A.? Just some guidance for people who are thinking of applying and starting to prepare themselves for that whole process. And I can start with Rushabh first.

Rushabh Sanghvi Thanks, Katya. In terms of like what would make a good R.A., I feel like in the last year and a half, things that have helped me the most would be just being very curious, being an active listener, an active participant in meetings. I think it's very easy to get quiet when there are a lot more people who have a lot more experience in this field to speak in a room. And I think it takes someone who is an active listener and also an active participant to be able to contribute to the team and also for his own personal growth. So I would say be curious, show that you have - that you're eager to participate, eager to learn. For me personally, coming in with some quantitative skills helped. But of course, as Jessie mentioned, it's not exactly a prerequisite. There's an ample scope to learn and there are a lot of resources at hand to help you learn. But I think those be the top three for me.

Ana Grisanti I'll go next, I guess so I actually had the chance to go through applications for R.A. positions last year, and some of the things that I would look for in applications are a quantitative background does help like background in economics or some coding experience. Although I also had an economics background and in my school we did some Stata work, but it wasn't super emphasized. So I did not feel like I came with like a very solid Stata background and I was able to learn on the job and it was like - it took a learning curve, but it was very, very doable. And so what we do look for is a quantitative background. We look for whether you have already done some work in development. So if you have done any volunteer work abroad or if you have already had work with international organizations, of course, that can be difficult coming straight from undergrad. But it is something that we look for. I think as in terms of what makes a successful R.A. I think like Rishabh said, it's not only about taking what your fellows are asking, but also taking it to the next level and really trying to think through ways that you can help the team beyond what is being asked of you. But yeah, those are some of the things that we look for.

Katya Gonzalez-Willette Jesse and I were playing a little bit of microphone tag, but I want to jump right into my next question, actually, because I think that it's something that's looming above most of our heads is the COVID-19 pandemic. So here at Harvard, we've actually been working remotely from home since about mid-March of 2020. And it looks like that will likely stay the same for a little while as most organizations are. So I want to hear from each of you about how your work experience has changed since we've gone fully remote, just how things might be the same or different and how it's been adjusting to this new normal. So we can start with Rushabh and then work our way through the group. Or actually, let's start with Jessie, since she didn't chime in in the last question.

Jessie Lu I think, as probably a lot of you feel, it's been really hard to transition to working online. You do lose a lot of the benefits of working in an office, especially in a place that's so collaborative, like the Growth Lab. And so I really miss the opportunity. We all work in like an open office space. Usually I really miss just being able to walk into people's offices with ideas and to kind of talk through those. Know, when I was learning Python, I would always be in my coworker Shreyas or Eric's office trying to work through code, which was really, really helpful. So I think that we've definitely had to seek ways to adapt in the remote setting. But I also think that it's given way to a lot of new ways of like teamwork that I think I wouldn't have otherwise discovered. I do think we have a lot more team meetings now. And these meetings, I think, are great because they foster both a sense of kind of like personal support, but also research support, which I think has been really helpful, as we've all been working through this. And so I think team meetings to kind of work through problems together. Rushabh and I have a lot of Namibia team meetings these days which have been interesting in providing, I think, like a broader perspective on what we're working on as a broader team. I also think that even though we can't travel as much anymore because of COVID, it's actually opened up a lot of pathways for more direct contact with counterparts. I don't know as much, what this was like pre-COVID because I wasn't at the Growth Lab very long pre-COVID. But I now know, like, we have many more Zoom calls with counterparts. You know, normally I think when we do projects in countries, we go and travel for a week and we do a lot of interviews and we haven't been able to do that for Namibia. But instead we've been able to have a lot of virtual interviews with counterparts. And I think that kind of flexibility to talk to counterparts more frequently and more easily has been something that COVID has brought. And that's been a really big gift. And I think that the other thing I'll say is that I do think it's been harder to collaborate via Zoom with coworkers, but I also think it's encouraged me personally to seek ways to reach out to people more often. And so if I don't know what's going on with the task or if I need more guidance, I think, you know, I definitely found ways to reach out to my coworkers, ask for help, and everyone is always just as willing to do that. So it just means that there are new ways that I've had to use to look for support and to get it. But everyone at the Growth Lab has been incredibly supportive, and I've still been able to get all the support that I need.

Ana Grisanti Sorry, so this is the Kennedy School campus for those who don't know, I'm obviously not there, but you get a little taste. So I think since COVID started, I want to echo some of the things that Jesse said. I think some of the positives are that before we would only go to the country that we were working at. I guess if you're counting like everyone in the team, it could be a couple of times a year, but those were the times where we would mainly talk to counterparts and everything else would be through emails. Now we get to talk to counterparts sometimes every week, and we get to do some of those interviews that Jesse's talking about with stakeholders where we may have questions for a Ministry or a company that's operating in Peru or Jordan. And if we have a way to connect with them, we can just set up a virtual call and it's just a lot easier. And another thing which I mentioned before is that before Ricardo's time was a lot more constrained and he would travel a lot and it was harder to get time with him. But now he has a lot more time to talk to the teams. And it wasn't like before there was you know, we still were able to report on the main things that were happening in the project. But now we are able to talk about most of the of the nitty gritty. And that's a big good thing that's come with COVID. But obviously, it's also been difficult to adjust to a time where we can't just knock on people's doors to ask any small question. On my part, it makes it a little bit harder to stay connected to a lot of the people in the office, and that's a bummer. But I think we have also made a good effort to keep the team connected. Sometimes this means way too many Zoom meetings, but I think in these times it's better to have more connection and less so yeah.

Katya Gonzalez-Willette Awesome, thanks so much. So pivoting the conversation a little bit, I'm curious about what you all are thinking about doing once you are ready to leave the Growth Lab? So using some of the skills that you had before and are now honing within your current role, what are some of the parts that R.A's can take once they are ready to transition out of that position? We can start with Jesse on this one.

Jessie Lu OK, I think I have a little bit of a different profile than Ana and Rushabh. I'm personally interested in pursuing a Ph.D. eventually. And so it was a huge motivator for me to join the Growth Lab as well, because I had that end goal in mind. I really wanted to get some hands-on research experience that was more quantitative. I had done a lot of policy research before coming to the Growth Lab. It just wasn't so rigorous. I think that was a huge reason why I joined the Lab. So, yeah, I'm interested in sustainable development, specifically on the environmental components of how we can achieve economic growth without destroying our planet. And so those are the PhD programs I'm interested in. And the Growth Lab has been really great in supporting me in this as well. I should mention is, as Rushabh said, there are always ways to sort of pursue the things that you're interested in. And even though the Growth Lab doesn't specialize in environmental things. There have been a lot of projects that have had environmental or energy components that I've been able to be involved in. So the project and Peru was all about protecting the Amazon rainforest. And the project in Albania that I was working on was on strengthening Albania's renewable energy system. And so, yeah. So that's where I'm going. That's how the Growth Lab has supported me.

Rushabh Sanghvi I can go next. For me personally, I was very undecided when I came to the Growth Lab on what I wanted to do next, I feel like I have more concrete understanding now. I do want to like look at the intersection of public policy and business. So for me, the next ideal step would probably be a joint degree, MBA and a public policy degree. And that is what I'm going to be applying for. As far as whether the Growth Lab can get you that or not, I don't know. I haven't applied. But I feel like the past profile of R.A.'s who I think Ana can attest better to, have gone down that path of getting a public policy degree and working development off that. So I'll let Ana speak to the rest of that.

Ana Grisanti Sure, so I've I worked with two R.A.'s previously at the Growth Lab, and one of them spent two years as a research assistant and then went directly into an MPP type degree. He's at Yale. And the other R.A. applied to programs last year and got into a bunch of different ones. She's going to end up going to the MPA/ID in Harvard, but she has taken a year or so to do some of her own work. So she has been involved with an organization in Switzerland that does work in Pakistan where she's from, and she's been able to be very successful with that. So you can do really a lot of different things when you leave the Growth Lab. Personally, I have been trying to get a position where I can do some more field work, more on the ground, work full time. With COVID, I kind of backtracked on that choice. And I am also applying this year to MPA and MPP degrees. I'm applying to the well, sorry, the MPA/ID is the Master's in Public Administration International Development, which is the flagship program for Growth Lab in Harvard Kennedy School. And I think it's a great next step to go into grad school after you have gone through the research assistant position, but you can also take a couple more years to kind of decide what you want to do. And it's a great first step to get you into a bunch of different types of positions. And I also had a similar experience to Rushabh where when I started I was fresh off of undergrad and I didn't really know what I wanted to do. After working at the Growth Lab, I've had such a wide taste of things that I've been able to do that I have decided I want to focus on labor markets and I want to focus on specifically migration. Some of you may know that the Venezuelan population is going through a very tough humanitarian and economic crisis. I'm from Venezuela and there's a big surge in emigration and I have thought it's a way for me to help like Venezuelans outside of Venezuela. So I hope that after a grad school program, I can join a position at places like IDB or World Bank, which is well within options that you can do after a Research Assistant position, so it's a very versatile.

Katya Gonzalez-Willette Awesome, thank you so much. I think this will probably be my final wrap up question, but I'd love to ask you each if you can share with us what has been your favorite part of working at the Growth Lab and then maybe the most challenging part about working at the Growth Lab. And we can start again with Jesse.

Jessie Lu So much pressure, all of these first questions, I think that my favorite part is I really like the feeling of feeling very proud of the work that I put out. I think that it's such a privilege. I really wanted to work in development, and I've been lucky enough that all my jobs since graduation, since graduating undergrad have been in development. But I think it's like it's such a privilege to be able to go to work every day and to be able to work in the field that I want to work in. And because I find such joy in that privilege, it means that the outputs that I put out, the research outputs I'm particularly proud of - I'm thinking of a set of graphs I did, for instance, for the Albania project, I was able to write a memo that went directly to the Minister of Finance of Albania, which was also really great. And I think that, like, it's just a great feeling to be able to know that I have the opportunity to produce research that I can stand by because I have the guidance of a lot of brilliant minds at the Growth Lab. And it's great to be able to produce research products that I know are legitimate, I know are strong. And I know that these products can hopefully help policymakers in these countries make better policy for people. And I think that that's definitely one of my favorite parts, is being able to feel pride in what I'm able to do and to be able to know that what I do has the potential to achieve impact. In terms of - wait did you ask about challenges? OK, I think like a big challenge is just the fact that the Growth Lab is limited by data and I think that's been something that has been really frustrating for me and something I've had to work through is just that oftentimes there are all these questions that I would love to ask. I would love to answer, but we're limited a lot by the data that we have available in different countries, in different settings. And I think that that's been a major challenge is learning how to deal with uncertainty and learning how to deal with not necessarily having access to all the information that I would want. But on the other hand, it's also a huge opportunity, right? It's an opportunity to think through more creative ways of answering questions. And so even though it's a challenge, it's also a huge pro, I guess, in some ways.

Ana Grisanti I can go next, so I will say that definitely the thing that I have loved the most about working at Growth Lab is the opportunity to travel and meet with counterparts directly, interview people that are on the ground directly. That is honestly an experience that has really taught me a lot. And every trip that I do, I feel like I learn more. So hopefully this whole COVID thing will be over soon. I think a lot of you will be able to have those experiences as well. I think that one of the challenges has been that you get to Growth Lab and you're very excited to kind of inflict change and have an impact. And although we do have great impact in a lot of the countries that we work with, it comes at a lot of hard work and it's often difficult to work with some counterparts that might have a hard time, you know, might disagree with you or - and sometimes with the research that we do, we come to conclusions that politicians don't always want to hear. And it can be difficult to navigate those relationships and it can be difficult to be patient and understand that these things take time. And it's quite a complex industry to be in because we want to do the best we can to make countries grow economically. But there's things in governments that are just kind of part of life that make it very difficult and kind of slow sometimes. But at the same time, when you do get that feeling of like talking to a Prime Minister and changing his mindset on certain things like electricity strategy for the country, it's very rewarding. So it's a great thing that you are able to see the impacts that you can make. But it is very hard work. So I guess that's the challenge that I would describe.

Rushabh Sanghvi I can go, I think, in terms of the thing I like the most about the Growth Lab, actually, there are two. One is the cliche, the people I think in general, I could not have asked for a better set of people to work with. I've learned more from informal discussions over lunch with my colleagues than I have probably in four years of college. The other thing I do like a lot about the Growth Lab is that gives you access to a lot of events that are happening on campus at the Kennedy School and in general at Harvard in general. I feel like I've attended so many events that might be directly related to what I want to do or some that are completely distant from what I might have ever imagined myself to do and still develop an interest in it. You have access to a lot of resources and a lot of smart people around at any given point to talk about any issue that you might want to explore so those are two really important things that I love about the Growth Lab. In terms of challenges, I feel the challenges are just in terms of how much you can take on in your plate. I feel like when I enter the Growth Lab there's so much happening in any given project that you want to try out everything. But of course, you're limited by your skills, you're limited by your time, limited by capacity to be able to contribute. And I think that's the biggest challenge being like how do you do something that you're interested in doing? How do you add most value to the team at the same time? Not take on too much work that - or like not just not ask for too much work just because you're interested in it. I feel like when there's so much interesting stuff happening at the Growth Lab and you're really interested in doing a lot of things, it can get very hard to choose what you want to work on versus what you absolutely need to work on at the moment. So that that would be my take on it.

Alicia Galinsky Great. And with that, I think I will just wrap up, just wanted to add one quick comment from before from a question. We're not consultants per say, but rather an independent research organization. And I will be posting more information about the role, the job description and instructions on how to apply very soon. I just sent a message in the chat with some good links to kind of stay in touch via Twitter. Check our website. And of course, if you have any individual questions, feel free to email the address that I put in the chat. I manage that inbox and we'll be happy to get back to you. And again, thanks to our panelists for other great answers. And thank you all for for joining today.